Using Al Turtle Logic on Relationship Troubles
Putting the Biological Dream to Work
By Al Turtle
I have received quite a few questions lately from people who want to know “what to do” in their particular situation. I had delayed writing back to some of them for several weeks. This delay of mine surprised me at the time because I am often fairly quick to respond. On a walk with my dogs, one day, I began to understand what was going on in me.
As I walked, I kept repeating, “It’s not rocket science,” over and over. I think my problem was that so often I feel inclined to write the “same answer” to everyone – rather than to write unique answers to each. I didn’t think my inclination came from laziness, but from a sense that everyone seems to be struggling with the same, or finite set of problems. Thus so often my suggestions end up seeming repetitive. But then, that was what I anticipated would happen if I had really solved the puzzle of “what it is that people want when they come together.”
The current three question areas (and I am summarizing) are:
- What do I do when my partner has left me, and when I am giving them all the space they need? What do I do next?
- What do I do when my partner of many years proceeds with divorce even after we have done some marriage counseling?
- What do I do in the relationship with my partner after we have found and “stopped” an affair?
First, I want to share four orienting concepts, points that help me start looking at the problems you and I have getting along with others.
Things aren’t good enough! It’s not right, yet.
A common sentiment presented to me is, either in a strong or more gentle tone, that “we need to do more,” and “it’s not good enough.” This sense of “it is not good enough” seems to be able to surface almost at any time in a relationship. What’s this all about? I am sure this is the Biological Dream. I believe all people want “IT” – in their cores, in their sleep, in their unconscious. I believe it’s needed by us all. And if you don’t have it , are not in it, or are not heading toward it, you feel bad, discouraged, depressed – and you should!
I think this sense, this feeling of “not good enough,” is as wonderful as the sense of pain. Pain warns us of injury. People who can’t feel pain get badly hurt. I recall having very cold hands on a winter day, and I cut my finger very deeply without sensing it or knowing it for quite some time, and not until a lot of blood had leaked out of me. The feeling “it is not good enough” alerts us, and tells us to get to work making it better.
- I see this often in young couples who have not decided yet to get married (technically), but who have been acting married for some time. They may sense that something is wrong, but haven’t focused on anything specific. They may be pointing to a specific annoyance. They often say that, “the excitement seems to be draining out”, or that they are not “in love” anymore.
- I see this sense of “not good enough” in individuals who are in a long-term marriage and who are feeling lonely, stuck, tired, or depressed.
- Sometimes a couple will come in, after many years of marriage, speaking of a building sense of distress. “All has been going good, until 2 years ago when…,” they say.
- I also see this sense of “we haven’t done enough” in couples who have been through Marriage Therapy, Weekend Couple’s Workshops, or who are in recovery from an affair.
- Certainly I see it in the couple who anxiously show up after one has announced an interest in divorce.
I see this “awareness of not enough” as a deep longing for what I call the Biological Dream. When people grasp for that dream, for example during Romantic Love, they are illuminated by it. They glow! They feel excited and alive as if a light were shining inside of them and all around them. When the Biological Dream begins to slip from their grasp, to get further away (as it always will), the excitement becomes dimmer and less bright. During Marriage Therapy or while repairing a relationship after an affair or other injury, the Biological Dream becomes closer for a while. As time goes on, as a reminder to keep working, there is commonly a sense of losing that glow again.
Personally I think that the “awareness of wanting more” is a brilliant invitation to getting to work, or getting back to work on becoming the kind of person you can, to building the relationship of your dreams. Missing out on any part of the Biological Dream can stir a lot of tears. The invitation is to GET TO WORK! Build that Dream! Learn to glow reliably!
Waking Up
Another common trait of all problems related to me is the factor of “surprise.” It seems very common that looking backward, people in relationship thought all was “going well” for a significant time, when “it wasn’t going well at all.” This is very common in couples where one person is surprised by what the other does.
And what is going on? Well, people aren’t sharing “it all.” People are withholding information. To say it crudely, “people lie a lot” and “people are awfully blind about it.” There are lots and lots of reasons for this. But the good news is that the “surprise” is all about shifting toward being more candid, more open and more safe with each other.
I love the phrase “out of the blue.” People use it to tell me of their partner’s behavior. “Out of the blue she told me she was getting a divorce.” “He had an affair and it came out of the blue.” This situation is simply that one person was experiencing things and somehow they weren’t sharing.
By the way, sharing means putting it out there and getting it received by the other. I believe that if your partner didn’t hear it, “you didn’t say it”; and if you didn’t hear it, your partner didn’t say it. Both people are involved in this. This is all about communication – an interpersonal activity.
I think that the “surprise” is a strong invitation to refresh, or rebuild the communication system between people. I find it also useful in diagnosing the problems within their system of talking. And finally I think it is a “wake call” to continue building your communication skills until neither feels any worry about the sharing of everything.
Most relationships do not have room for more than one person
The first time I heard this, I laughed long and hard – until I began to see how often it occurs and causes trouble. This is often called Emotional Symbiosis. It is also called the tendency to be “narrow minded” or “self-centered.” I think our cultures are so full of blindness about this, that I believe that almost always fixing it is the first step in solving interpersonal troubles.
In terms of the Biological Dream, this is Diversity and Autonomy. Diversity means that all people see and understand everything differently than everyone else. It means getting comfortable with “disagreement.” Autonomy means that all people do things that make sense to them. It means actively standing up for people’s right to disagree vocally and pleasantly. Put these two together and you have the phrases “all people make sense and are doing their best all the time.”
In approaching any relationship problems (for example the three listed above), I pull out my first tool – the Diversity Principle. Both people are doing their best and what makes sense for them at any moment. Any suggestion by one partner that the other is not doing their best or is not making sense, will be experienced as an attack or a rejection, and thus will continue the growth of problems. The Diversity Principle gets rid of this habit of thinking and starts the way in solving the problem.
It also gets rid of the habit of blaming or of taking no responsibility – the silly “black hat/white hat” phenomenon. Whatever is going on, both are partially responsible. The phrase “You are not to blame for it” seems just as useless as “It is all my fault.” I suggest you take that word “it” and break it into two pieces. “I am responsible, to blame, for my part; and you are responsible, to blame, for your part.” I believe that boundaries are the prime understandings and skills that make it possible for two people to live intimately and happily in one relationship.
What is going on?
I found that after a person gets over their surprise, and after they process the pain that they may feel, the next step is to get a sense of what is going on. For me and for many hundreds of my clients, the most useful tool to do this is my Map of Relationships. Based on the Biological Dream, it illustrates the relatively simple paths that people take in trying to find the relationship of their dreams. When a person comes to me with a problem in their relationship, I use the Map to decide “where they are” and “what are their options.” I will refer to the Map as I give my reactions to the questions, below.
The Questions
Look at question #1: What do I do when my partner has left me and when I am giving them all the space they need? What do I do next? Here are some fun points and questions. (This is not multiple choice. Look at them all.)
- Your partner left you because it made sense to them at the time to leave you. Do you know what that “sense” was? You’d better
- find out what is was/is and
- find out why you hadn’t known this before and
- fix the problem so that this blindness doesn’t occur again.
- Since they were leaving (Fleeing, see the Lizard), chances are they did not, and perhaps for a long time had not, felt safe with you. You’d better
- find out what do you do that scares them
- make yourself into a “source of safety” to them so that they will “flee” the rest of the world in order to be safe with you
- Chances are they became hopeless of obtaining the Biological Dream with you. You’d better
- find out what they are missing
- find out how you appear stuck
- find out what you are not delivering
- find out all about the passivity in your relationship (yours, theirs, both)
- learn to work visibly and reliably so they (and you) have hope of reaching the Biological Dream
- Remember, they still want the Biological Dream. You’d better
- find out what part of their needs are they focusing on
- find out how they are currently seeking to meet those needs
- learn the skills to meet those needs yourself, first
- learn to build Empathy
- Chances are that when they left, it surprised you. That suggests that they didn’t share what was going on in them. The only reason they would not share with you is that they didn’t feel safe when talking with you. Chances are that in the past “you were not fun” to talk to. You’d better
- find out what are your worst talking skills and get rid of them
- become an expert at making your partner feel heard (Learn thru Mirroring)
- become an expert at making your partner feel understood – Validate, PreValidate
- Chances are both of you carry quite a bit of resentment. Go to work on it.
- Validate all resentments
- Heal all wounds – Restructure Frustrations
- Make Amends for all you feel guilty about.
- Map of Relationship Analysis: The chances are that this couple has gotten into the Power Struggle. It is probable that one partner is considering the Divorce Door. Both are tired of using painful and dysfunctional tools to make the relationship better. One is pretty hopeless.
- This is not a short fix, but a process of becoming someone new – an adult. “The journey is longest that is not started.” But the journey is not endless.
Look at question #2 (What do I do when my partner of many years proceeds with divorce even after we did some marriage counseling?) I notice how
- Most of the suggestions for Question #1 are just as applicable for Question #2.
- The major difference is the length of the relationship before the “waking up.” Which suggests
- a greater depth of “blindness” – much more to be turned up and looked at
- a probable great stubbornness of the two – more hopelessness
- a probable greater depth of passivity – waiting for the other to fix the problem
- a probable great depth of resentment – get to work.
- become expert at Making Amends
- become expert at Restructuring Frustrations
- “Like peeling an onion” – work on whatever comes up first.
- a greater need for support, possibly long-term, in making the changes
- Sounds as if the marriage counseling served to bring up old-unaddressed issues, but did not last long enough to make much progress in resolving them.
- I am sorry to say that another possibility is that the marriage counseling you received wasn’t worth a damn! You might want to find another therapist. Look for one who has proven they can build a great relationship for themselves. If a therapist argues, fire them.
- Map of Relationship Analysis: This couple has just popped out of Door #2 and is back at the Choice Point. Do they go for a great relationship (Door #1)? Do they go back into Door #2, which I am coming to call the Land of the Passive? Do they Divorce and try again with someone else(Door #3). My preference is Door #1. My second preference is Door #3. I don’t think the world is improved by them going back into Door #2. I salute them for the courage to break out of that numbing place.
Look at question #3 (What do I do in the relationship with my partner after we have found and stopped their affair?) I notice
- The couple has already gone through a “great awakening” and has made some progress.
- A critical point for both is eventually understanding why the one had the affair and what the other did to “push them toward it” and why. A big hunk of non-sharing has gone on. I think you want to remove all sense of risk of the same thing happening again. I heard a quote the other day that I liked, “I never heard of a relationship that was broken up from the outside.”
- validate and/or PreValidate the fear that will come up in the affaired against partner
- validate and/or PreValidate the needs and thoughts, the logic, of the one who did the affair. I think it better to focus on the specific “why’s” and not so much on the specific events.
- lead the way to changes that make another affair both pointless and undesireable
- don’t leave a stone unturned – get to the bottom of the affair and rebuild
- The question implies that “things are not good enough” yet – a very wise feeling.
- The suggestions for Question #1 are still right on. Only now
- advanced work in progress toward the Biological Dream is needed
- focus on what is missing
- fun
- ease of getting connection and space
- validation
- invitation – pro-activity
- focus on frustrations
- focus on making amends
- focus on removing all passivity
- focus on developing both people’s purposes
- focus on connecting to other growing people
- In a wonderful way, an affair is not over until both people are completely trusting that another affair will not happen. That’s when that feeling of “things are not good enough” will go away.
- Map of Relationship Analysis: This couple sounds as if they are in the University of Life and are struggling. They have already made the commitment to move forward and are now learning the lessons. They aren’t yet in Vintage Love and can feel it.
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Note on the title “Turtle Logic”
Of course, one reason I call this “Turtle” is to reasure you, and me, that these are only my best ideas and are not “facts.” No MasterTalk intended here, if possible. The other reason has to do with the wonder of having been born with a name like “turtle” and thus connecting to the great power in the core of the universe that native people speak of using the name “turtle.” Seems to me that when I get to the bottom of how people relate, to that deep core, things become more and more simple – the logic becomes clearer and simpler.
Al,
First I want to thank you for the incredible amount of time, work, and dedication that you have put into this site, and then to put it up for free for everyone to use. Truly amazing.
I would like to put out my situation and see if it might be of interest to you and/or other readers, and perhaps get some advice for myself and for anyone else who might be in a similar position.
I think (whew, almost said “I feel”) that I might be a somewhat unusual case, as I am the partner who had an (emotional) affair, I am usually (90%+) in the role of avoider/slave in my marriage, I am the one who, for lack of a better way of saying it, “wants out”, yet I am the one who is here to try and figure out a course of action.
Excuse me if I use an obscene amount of Slave (and maybe some Master) speak, I am still working as best I can on all of this. My extremely short story of what I think my main issues are this: my mother was/is an extremely controlling person, was extraordinarily adept at being a passive master, used strict religious views to support her . . . you probably know the type. I have discovered that this has left me to deal with very strong tendencies to flee, freeze, and submit in relationships. For all of my 31 years I have been convinced that there is a right answer to everything, some pre-ordained and absolute mold that I and everyone else must fit into. When I didn’t fit into that I was belittled, punished, rejected, invalidated – I wasn’t allowed to develop any sense of self.
When faced with adversity, especially of the relationship sort, I have always froze and/or submitted, thinking that that was the right thing to do. The monster problem that I have gotten myself into now though is that many decisions have been made (because of my inability to assert myself, thinking that it was wrong to do so) that are causing me extreme unhappiness. Decisions such as moving away from a place that I loved to a place that I hate because my wife felt she needed to, and the monster that I hate to admit – having kids.
My question I guess is this – how can I, as the slave/avoider/person who had the affair/partner who wants out, effectively lead us to somewhere better, to where I want us to be? My wife is too wrapped up in caring for the kids/church activities/family things/whatever to spend much time working on things, and she flat out told me that she feels that pretty much all of our problems are my fault and that she is waiting for me to “get better” because then the relationship will be all good. I am quite certain that that is not the case, but I am finding it nearly impossible to overcome my intense fear cycles in order to try and lead us.
Any suggestions on what I can try? I just get very worried when you and M. Scott Peck in The Road Less Traveled say basically the same thing: that the avoider, someone with my upbringing, someone with my traits – will have a very very difficult, if not impossible time in trying to lead us anywhere. Not to mention trying to overcome the immense amount of invalidation I experienced in childhood all by myself.
Dear Friend,
Sorry to take so long to get back to you on this. It was not because the item you focus on is small. Rather I think it is much bigger than you think. I have been pondering how to respond – what would be the best way.
First let me share that I do not think lying is a good idea, nor do I think lying to yourself is useful. However, I have not yet found a person coming to my office who is not deeply involved with lying themselves in many many ways.
The topic is very frustrating for people and I imagine, in your letter, that I can hear the tone of a lot of frustration. Still I have found that the position you seem to be in (“I've discovered that my partner lies to himself and he has to stop that before we can move on.”) is a no-winner, as you seem to construct it.
That quote you give, is fine for me -but how to achieve self-opennes?. Approaching lying as if it in a court case, seems always to make the lying deeper and deeper. I really, really believe the goal is to move toward more and more candid sharing of everything, and my experience is that this involves a lot of growth in both partners over quite a bit of time.
Here's my definition. Lie – To knowing leave someone in a state of misunderstanding about something you believe is important to them. Active lying: to say that which is not so. Passive lying: to leave unsaid that which is important to someone.
Most people seem to trivialize the discovery of lying in their partner and use it as a “stick” in the fruitless battle of “blaming” I find that they most often use it to “shame their partner” or to “justify” their own foolish reactions of angry attacks, self-justification, and giving up. Doesn't work!
Besides, often lying is just the normal process of two people seeing different things about each other. Check out my papers on Validation and Making Sense. Growing into knowing myself required/requires me to relate to others who can share their views about parts of myself that I don't see, yet. And that growing involves lots and lots of Safety. Anger at a “liar” does not seem compatible with working toward candid sharing. Validation and PreValidation seems to work really well.
Simply put, I believe people lie because they do not feel safe to tell the truth or they don't feel safe to discover things about themselves. People learn to tell the truth as the begin to experience that it is safer to share and explore themselves. And here we are back to the topic of becoming a source of safety to your partner.
Good luck.
al, wow, thanks for taking so much time and thought to respond.
i understand what you are saying about the “DO THIS” approach………it may sell well, but it really doesn't address the more complex issues underlying the problems….
however, i am going to challenge one notion for you…and that is the notion that THE REASON he doesn't share or keeps secrets is because he doesn't feel safe………
who was it that said? People cannot be more honest with others than they are with themselves………
I think that is the FIRST step in sharing secrets….is learning to be honest and accepting with one's self……if my H cannot accept himself, if he is still unwilling to go to the places that frighten him………….because HE DOES NOT FEEL SAFE WITH HIMSELF…..then, my making things safe for him really won't do the trick…………(although, there have been a couple of times when he was actually able to be honest with me and then with himself…kinda ass backwards….but it makes sense if I am safer than he is with himself…….aren't we are own harshest critics?)
So, based on my situation, where I believe I have created an incredible zone of safety for my H……..until/if he can be HONEST with himself, there really is no hope of him being able to be honest with me………..regardless of how safe I make it.
Dear Friend,
Thanks for your comments and questions. I read your words with comfort and sadness.
The sadness is that I, too, wanted a step-by-step cookbook to solve all my troubles with relationships. I even looked at a bunch of what was offered and found them wanting. You can check them out. Try Dr. Phil, he seems to act as if he has answers to all problems rather quickly. He is known for the 8 minute answer.
For myself I, too, was in pain, and while I believed there was a way out, I couldn’t find it, or anyone who would show me the way. A lot of writers promised much, but that seems to have been more a deceptive collusion of publishers, editors, agents and book titles than of anything really valuable. Twas more valuable to them (their pocket book) than to me, trying to find a fix to my problems. My sadness then, and now, is that most people that are promising fixes don’t know the fixes themselves – they just look good in a marketing-kind-of-way.
(This, by the way, is one reason I have not tried to write a book on relationships. I would end up lost, competing with those who don’t know the wisdom but who do know how to market, again Dr. Phil or John Gray.)
The comfort I feel is much more a sense of “Ah. I have a good idea, good ideas, about what this person can do. And, I am not lost anymore.” Might sound a bit cocky, but I am sure glad to be where I am!
I hear you have trouble putting my ideas into actionable actions. I did too. Be patient with yourself. You have your own way of learning. And learning is your job, and there seems to be no way around that idea. Discover your way of learning and get on with it.
As a student in school and college, I found that I learned best from contacting the teacher. Books were often little use to me. But if I could get to a “real” teacher, I could ask the right questions and I would learn like lightning. I never could not find a wise relationship teacher. I had to learn all I have by direct contact, trial and lots and lots of errors. Most of my learnings have come from a deep kind of “spiritual” learning. Really, my essays are like “notes to me” about the things I have learned. And I guess that is why my writings may not be so useful to you. They are written to me and not really prepared for “the reader.” Sorry about that. But then again, I did find my way eventually and have shared what I have. And I plan to continue sharing. And perhaps it will eventually seem better organized.
By the way, you can always contact me and I can be a teacher for you, if you want. I am not overloaded at this point, and I like working with people. I spend time with clients by the hour. I carry this entire website, its practical applications and theories in my head. Also you might try any Imago Therapist.
To respond to your questions.
How to talk and heal after an infidelity? How about the “cheating spouse” validating the “cheated spouse?”
These two kind of flowed together for me. The real question, for me, is how to get your partner to talk honestly at all, and how to get your partner to “validate you” at all. I wrote a piece on How to get him/her to do what you want? For me, all those questions resolve back to the issue of “Why should an adult do anything?” Sharing yourself, or hearing someone (making them feel heard) or validating someone (making them feel understood) takes effort. I’ve found that in relationship the only valuable reason for doing things for your partner is that it gives you pleasure and leads to pleasure. I suggest you take the lead. I suggest you put your “needs” away on a back burner. You may “loose some battles but win the war” this way. I suggest you make a plan to earn your partner putting some effort into you – to share, to listen, to validate.
I suggest you set your sights on hearing and healing his wounds and his pain that lead your partner to “cheat.” Set your sights on becoming and expert at validating his behavior that you see as “unfaithful.” This you can do. Making your partner able to validate you is something you cannot do. You can show them the way. Model it. (Expecting him to do it for you doesn’t seem to work! So quit it.)
“He’s unwilling/unable to go there, to accept that the pain I am feeling was a result of the secret keeping and breach of trust.”
This one is quite clear to me, and you may not like it at all. Stop blaming him for your hurt. I’ve found that is only a way of trying to manipulate people, whether I do it or you do it. Learn boundaries. I am responsible for my feelings, including my hurt! Someone can try to hurt me, but it only works if I let it. Thus, quit blaming him. Yes, hold him responsible for what he did, but not for how you took it or felt about it. That is your part.
And you have a great clue there, in making things better. You mention “secret keeping” and I assume it was his secrecy. And you mention “breaches of trust” – what I call betrayal. There is probably a great deal more to this “secret keeping” than you know about so far. You will be making progress when you both become more and more candid with each other. Secret keeping, like silence, I believe has only one cause. He keeps secrets cuz you are not safe to share the truth with – from his point of view. What the heck do you do that might tend to threaten him, that might lead him to silence or secret keeping and that (blessedly) you can stop doing? Big question there! Ask friends and family for help in finding the answers.
Your last paragraph was truly awesome to me. Read my Power of Passivity to get ahold of that Victim stuff. None of us are victims or bullies or passive masters. But all of us use these postures at times and can learn to recognize them and move beyond them to adult relating.
“Does the past impact the future?”
How silly! How about the APR (amiable psychological response), DUH? Our brains are incapable of forgetting the past. We are not built that way. Because of our memory systems, we have to build on our past, resolve the things from the past, and we move forward in that way. Learning from, adding to, our past makes us wise. When people say to forget the past, tell ‘em that way doesn’t work. But many people don’t know how to process the past, don’t know how to Make Amends or deal with Frustrations. Heck, that is why I put these processes into my life and articles. All relationships need ways to self-repair. Get it! Forgetting just doesn’t work.
I love your bit about trying to have an “IMAGO” conversation about “your” feelings. What is that? The Imago Couple’s Dialogue is a two person skill training device. It is possible to have it one-sided, but only about the other person’s feelings, thoughts and beliefs. I can have one with anyone cuz I will do the work, but I can’t make anyone listen or validate me, unless they want to and have learned how.
“his lizard pounces and he believes he is under attack (despite no such intention or language or whatever on my part).”
Hey, that is what lizards are about. They have their own way of interpreting what is going on and while they misunderstand things a lot, they are remarkably reliable and accurate. Learn to make his Lizard relax, help his lizard to feel safe.
“He just does not want to go there.” Learn how to make him want to. Make it worth his while.
“I desperately need to be heard.” Boy, do I understand that one. Clingers unite! This like a whole hill of baying wolves, yelling at the moon right after their partner has left them. Go ahead and cry out, but then get to work. The solution is to learn to make your Avoider feel safe and at peace.
The problem with a simple list of “what to do” is that relationships are a bit more complex – see my Flying a Good Relationship. Each step isn’t hard, but they seem often to have to be done all at the same time: the skills for safety, for reliable membership, for diversity, for autonomy, for purpose. The good news is that I don’t believe the list is endless. Good luck.
Al–I appreciate the time, energy and effort you put into this article. It is rich with information and you do a nice job of tying back to many of your theories and examples….but, honestly, it still leaves me wanting…..
i was hoping for a straight forward “HOW TO” step by step approach ala What to Do When He/She Leaves…..maybe my mind is just not capable of assimilating all of this information and making it actionable.
I still want to know how to go about talking about and healing the wounds of infidelity in a couple who has decided they want to make a go of it. How does one get the “cheating” spouse to acknowledge and validate the pain experience by the cheated on spouse? My H seems unwilling/unable to go there………perhaps because it is too painful for him to accept that the pain i am feeling was a result of the secret keeping and breach of trust.
Not trying to be a victim here. Understand that he was/is in pain as well. But, how to get past this notion of “the past is past and it has no impact on the future” is what is really creating a huge barrier in our relationship. Every time i try to have an IMAGO conversation about my feelings he is unable (unwilling) to focus on MY FEELINGS…his lizard pounces and he believes he is under attack (despite no such intention or language or whatever on my part). He just does not want to go there. I desperately need to be heard.
So, where to go from here?