Using Al Turtle Logic on Relationship Troubles
Putting the Biological Dream to Work
By Al Turtle
I have received quite a few questions lately from people who want to know “what to do” in their particular situation. I had delayed writing back to some of them for several weeks. This delay of mine surprised me at the time because I am often fairly quick to respond. On a walk with my dogs, one day, I began to understand what was going on in me.
As I walked, I kept repeating, “It’s not rocket science,” over and over. I think my problem was that so often I feel inclined to write the “same answer” to everyone – rather than to write unique answers to each. I didn’t think my inclination came from laziness, but from a sense that everyone seems to be struggling with the same, or finite set of problems. Thus so often my suggestions end up seeming repetitive. But then, that was what I anticipated would happen if I had really solved the puzzle of “what it is that people want when they come together.”
The current three question areas (and I am summarizing) are:
- What do I do when my partner has left me, and when I am giving them all the space they need? What do I do next?
- What do I do when my partner of many years proceeds with divorce even after we have done some marriage counseling?
- What do I do in the relationship with my partner after we have found and “stopped” an affair?
First, I want to share four orienting concepts, points that help me start looking at the problems you and I have getting along with others.
Things aren’t good enough! It’s not right, yet.
A common sentiment presented to me is, either in a strong or more gentle tone, that “we need to do more,” and “it’s not good enough.” This sense of “it is not good enough” seems to be able to surface almost at any time in a relationship. What’s this all about? I am sure this is the Biological Dream. I believe all people want “IT” – in their cores, in their sleep, in their unconscious. I believe it’s needed by us all. And if you don’t have it , are not in it, or are not heading toward it, you feel bad, discouraged, depressed – and you should!
I think this sense, this feeling of “not good enough,” is as wonderful as the sense of pain. Pain warns us of injury. People who can’t feel pain get badly hurt. I recall having very cold hands on a winter day, and I cut my finger very deeply without sensing it or knowing it for quite some time, and not until a lot of blood had leaked out of me. The feeling “it is not good enough” alerts us, and tells us to get to work making it better.
- I see this often in young couples who have not decided yet to get married (technically), but who have been acting married for some time. They may sense that something is wrong, but haven’t focused on anything specific. They may be pointing to a specific annoyance. They often say that, “the excitement seems to be draining out”, or that they are not “in love” anymore.
- I see this sense of “not good enough” in individuals who are in a long-term marriage and who are feeling lonely, stuck, tired, or depressed.
- Sometimes a couple will come in, after many years of marriage, speaking of a building sense of distress. “All has been going good, until 2 years ago when…,” they say.
- I also see this sense of “we haven’t done enough” in couples who have been through Marriage Therapy, Weekend Couple’s Workshops, or who are in recovery from an affair.
- Certainly I see it in the couple who anxiously show up after one has announced an interest in divorce.
I see this “awareness of not enough” as a deep longing for what I call the Biological Dream. When people grasp for that dream, for example during Romantic Love, they are illuminated by it. They glow! They feel excited and alive as if a light were shining inside of them and all around them. When the Biological Dream begins to slip from their grasp, to get further away (as it always will), the excitement becomes dimmer and less bright. During Marriage Therapy or while repairing a relationship after an affair or other injury, the Biological Dream becomes closer for a while. As time goes on, as a reminder to keep working, there is commonly a sense of losing that glow again.
Personally I think that the “awareness of wanting more” is a brilliant invitation to getting to work, or getting back to work on becoming the kind of person you can, to building the relationship of your dreams. Missing out on any part of the Biological Dream can stir a lot of tears. The invitation is to GET TO WORK! Build that Dream! Learn to glow reliably!
Waking Up
Another common trait of all problems related to me is the factor of “surprise.” It seems very common that looking backward, people in relationship thought all was “going well” for a significant time, when “it wasn’t going well at all.” This is very common in couples where one person is surprised by what the other does.
And what is going on? Well, people aren’t sharing “it all.” People are withholding information. To say it crudely, “people lie a lot” and “people are awfully blind about it.” There are lots and lots of reasons for this. But the good news is that the “surprise” is all about shifting toward being more candid, more open and more safe with each other.
I love the phrase “out of the blue.” People use it to tell me of their partner’s behavior. “Out of the blue she told me she was getting a divorce.” “He had an affair and it came out of the blue.” This situation is simply that one person was experiencing things and somehow they weren’t sharing.
By the way, sharing means putting it out there and getting it received by the other. I believe that if your partner didn’t hear it, “you didn’t say it”; and if you didn’t hear it, your partner didn’t say it. Both people are involved in this. This is all about communication – an interpersonal activity.
I think that the “surprise” is a strong invitation to refresh, or rebuild the communication system between people. I find it also useful in diagnosing the problems within their system of talking. And finally I think it is a “wake call” to continue building your communication skills until neither feels any worry about the sharing of everything.
Most relationships do not have room for more than one person
The first time I heard this, I laughed long and hard – until I began to see how often it occurs and causes trouble. This is often called Emotional Symbiosis. It is also called the tendency to be “narrow minded” or “self-centered.” I think our cultures are so full of blindness about this, that I believe that almost always fixing it is the first step in solving interpersonal troubles.
In terms of the Biological Dream, this is Diversity and Autonomy. Diversity means that all people see and understand everything differently than everyone else. It means getting comfortable with “disagreement.” Autonomy means that all people do things that make sense to them. It means actively standing up for people’s right to disagree vocally and pleasantly. Put these two together and you have the phrases “all people make sense and are doing their best all the time.”
In approaching any relationship problems (for example the three listed above), I pull out my first tool – the Diversity Principle. Both people are doing their best and what makes sense for them at any moment. Any suggestion by one partner that the other is not doing their best or is not making sense, will be experienced as an attack or a rejection, and thus will continue the growth of problems. The Diversity Principle gets rid of this habit of thinking and starts the way in solving the problem.
It also gets rid of the habit of blaming or of taking no responsibility – the silly “black hat/white hat” phenomenon. Whatever is going on, both are partially responsible. The phrase “You are not to blame for it” seems just as useless as “It is all my fault.” I suggest you take that word “it” and break it into two pieces. “I am responsible, to blame, for my part; and you are responsible, to blame, for your part.” I believe that boundaries are the prime understandings and skills that make it possible for two people to live intimately and happily in one relationship.
What is going on?
I found that after a person gets over their surprise, and after they process the pain that they may feel, the next step is to get a sense of what is going on. For me and for many hundreds of my clients, the most useful tool to do this is my Map of Relationships. Based on the Biological Dream, it illustrates the relatively simple paths that people take in trying to find the relationship of their dreams. When a person comes to me with a problem in their relationship, I use the Map to decide “where they are” and “what are their options.” I will refer to the Map as I give my reactions to the questions, below.
The Questions
Look at question #1: What do I do when my partner has left me and when I am giving them all the space they need? What do I do next? Here are some fun points and questions. (This is not multiple choice. Look at them all.)
- Your partner left you because it made sense to them at the time to leave you. Do you know what that “sense” was? You’d better
- find out what is was/is and
- find out why you hadn’t known this before and
- fix the problem so that this blindness doesn’t occur again.
- Since they were leaving (Fleeing, see the Lizard), chances are they did not, and perhaps for a long time had not, felt safe with you. You’d better
- find out what do you do that scares them
- make yourself into a “source of safety” to them so that they will “flee” the rest of the world in order to be safe with you
- Chances are they became hopeless of obtaining the Biological Dream with you. You’d better
- find out what they are missing
- find out how you appear stuck
- find out what you are not delivering
- find out all about the passivity in your relationship (yours, theirs, both)
- learn to work visibly and reliably so they (and you) have hope of reaching the Biological Dream
- Remember, they still want the Biological Dream. You’d better
- find out what part of their needs are they focusing on
- find out how they are currently seeking to meet those needs
- learn the skills to meet those needs yourself, first
- learn to build Empathy
- Chances are that when they left, it surprised you. That suggests that they didn’t share what was going on in them. The only reason they would not share with you is that they didn’t feel safe when talking with you. Chances are that in the past “you were not fun” to talk to. You’d better
- find out what are your worst talking skills and get rid of them
- become an expert at making your partner feel heard (Learn thru Mirroring)
- become an expert at making your partner feel understood – Validate, PreValidate
- Chances are both of you carry quite a bit of resentment. Go to work on it.
- Validate all resentments
- Heal all wounds – Restructure Frustrations
- Make Amends for all you feel guilty about.
- Map of Relationship Analysis: The chances are that this couple has gotten into the Power Struggle. It is probable that one partner is considering the Divorce Door. Both are tired of using painful and dysfunctional tools to make the relationship better. One is pretty hopeless.
- This is not a short fix, but a process of becoming someone new – an adult. “The journey is longest that is not started.” But the journey is not endless.
Look at question #2 (What do I do when my partner of many years proceeds with divorce even after we did some marriage counseling?) I notice how
- Most of the suggestions for Question #1 are just as applicable for Question #2.
- The major difference is the length of the relationship before the “waking up.” Which suggests
- a greater depth of “blindness” – much more to be turned up and looked at
- a probable great stubbornness of the two – more hopelessness
- a probable greater depth of passivity – waiting for the other to fix the problem
- a probable great depth of resentment – get to work.
- become expert at Making Amends
- become expert at Restructuring Frustrations
- “Like peeling an onion” – work on whatever comes up first.
- a greater need for support, possibly long-term, in making the changes
- Sounds as if the marriage counseling served to bring up old-unaddressed issues, but did not last long enough to make much progress in resolving them.
- I am sorry to say that another possibility is that the marriage counseling you received wasn’t worth a damn! You might want to find another therapist. Look for one who has proven they can build a great relationship for themselves. If a therapist argues, fire them.
- Map of Relationship Analysis: This couple has just popped out of Door #2 and is back at the Choice Point. Do they go for a great relationship (Door #1)? Do they go back into Door #2, which I am coming to call the Land of the Passive? Do they Divorce and try again with someone else(Door #3). My preference is Door #1. My second preference is Door #3. I don’t think the world is improved by them going back into Door #2. I salute them for the courage to break out of that numbing place.
Look at question #3 (What do I do in the relationship with my partner after we have found and stopped their affair?) I notice
- The couple has already gone through a “great awakening” and has made some progress.
- A critical point for both is eventually understanding why the one had the affair and what the other did to “push them toward it” and why. A big hunk of non-sharing has gone on. I think you want to remove all sense of risk of the same thing happening again. I heard a quote the other day that I liked, “I never heard of a relationship that was broken up from the outside.”
- validate and/or PreValidate the fear that will come up in the affaired against partner
- validate and/or PreValidate the needs and thoughts, the logic, of the one who did the affair. I think it better to focus on the specific “why’s” and not so much on the specific events.
- lead the way to changes that make another affair both pointless and undesireable
- don’t leave a stone unturned – get to the bottom of the affair and rebuild
- The question implies that “things are not good enough” yet – a very wise feeling.
- The suggestions for Question #1 are still right on. Only now
- advanced work in progress toward the Biological Dream is needed
- focus on what is missing
- fun
- ease of getting connection and space
- validation
- invitation – pro-activity
- focus on frustrations
- focus on making amends
- focus on removing all passivity
- focus on developing both people’s purposes
- focus on connecting to other growing people
- In a wonderful way, an affair is not over until both people are completely trusting that another affair will not happen. That’s when that feeling of “things are not good enough” will go away.
- Map of Relationship Analysis: This couple sounds as if they are in the University of Life and are struggling. They have already made the commitment to move forward and are now learning the lessons. They aren’t yet in Vintage Love and can feel it.
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Note on the title “Turtle Logic”
Of course, one reason I call this “Turtle” is to reasure you, and me, that these are only my best ideas and are not “facts.” No MasterTalk intended here, if possible. The other reason has to do with the wonder of having been born with a name like “turtle” and thus connecting to the great power in the core of the universe that native people speak of using the name “turtle.” Seems to me that when I get to the bottom of how people relate, to that deep core, things become more and more simple – the logic becomes clearer and simpler.
Hi Al,
You are a gift from the universe. Thank you for transforming the way I look at relationships and life.
I had a question. You mention that “it is quite a skill to be available to a partner when they are in pain (and learning), and yet allow the partner to feel the pain fully”.
Is there an article on the site about this? Where do I learn this skill?
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I am not saying that long-distance relationships or texting will not work. Heck, anything that you learn from is valuable. I am saying those are just, in my experience, powerful difficulties that rarely seem to be surmountable. Good luck.
Dear PassionPie, (I feel a bit awkward using your email name, but it’s all I have.)
Thanks for posting your situation and I hope my response will broaden what I have already written a bit for everyone. Seems a tough situation, so let’s see where my mind drifts.
I see no problem with your age difference.
First I’ll focus on two issues: long-distance and text-messaging. Long distance relationships seem to be a terrible difficulty. So many of the people who write me or call me are trying to manage with a great deal of distance between them. Perhaps these people commonly use the Internet and thus are people who find my articles. Could be. But anyway, I think of this as an enormous difficulty on top of the normal huge difficulties of making a great relationship. The core of this problem seems to me to be the extremely thin “bandwidth” (amount of data, verbal and non-verbal) that is passing between you, the requirement to dream up interpretations of each other based on this thin data, and the strong tendency to promote both the Romantic Period (based on lack of data) and the Power Struggle (based of attempts to change each other while you are “out of range”).
And so I see these sad dreamlike relationships where no progress is made, pain is common, and people seem to be “wasting their lives” (hours, weeks, months, years) trying to turn the dream into reality w/o the tools. For me, I tend to see relationship work as beginning AFTER the Romantic Period is dispensed with and AFTER the Power Struggle has fully come to see a waste of time. The quicker this happens, the better, as far as I am concerned. Long-distance relationships often seem to just prolong the pain. I am not trying to discourage you. Just tend to see the long-distance as the equivalent of another fruitless Power Struggle tactic.
And worse, that same long-distance seems to be a common material of Door #2 of a normal relationship — people claiming to be in relationship while they are really just walking-divorced people staying far away from each other. The vast majority of couples, who come to my office after a lengthy marriage, have arranged a long-distance relationship while at home. They work on different shifts, they work far away from each other, and they are busy – too busy to have time for each other. Their long-distance is a powerful tool for avoiding the complications of intimacy. I have to laugh, in a kind way, when they say they want to come in, but can’t because they cannot find a time when they can be together at my office. I’ve been there and this long-distance tactic doesn’t seem to work.
Text-messaging seems to have the same effect. If I had my way, anyone who might be in-love or in the fighting-stage would be banned from texting. Again, the bandwidth of communication seems vastly too small for the development of successful intimacy. Texting seems ideally suited for the creation of fantasy intimacy – Romantic Love. “I am in love with the person I dream about when you send me a text message.” Ohh it seems so sad.
Now let me look again at your email… Ok, here are two problems that seem mostly of the Reliable Membership stuff: a) you cling and she avoids, and b) she switches.
You cling. That’s two points of view. From your view, you probably panic when she pulls away. Simple principle and it is surely all about me, too. I’ve been a recovering Clinger for years. Doing pretty well, thank you. When you panic in or near her presence, she can see it and react to it. When you are alone, you’re left alone with your panic. Have I got that? Your job is to recognize, validate, forgive and learn from your behavior. Your job is to long-term be comfortable when she backs away – so comfortable that she feels relaxed to back up and pull away in your presence – not from your presence. Her job, were she to chose to do it, is to help you with this lesson by pulling away more and more gently but firmly. One component for you is to create the expectation that she is taking a break, not just leaving you. The difference is just the mention of a length of time – Timeout.
From her point of view you won’t give her space, haven’t in the past, and probably won’t in the future. The long-distance relationship, the texting, email, etc. all facilitate her getting away. These features could even have been consciously chosen by her. But maybe not.
The issue of Reliable Membership seems unconsciously a part of human (animal) design. We can be aware of it, plan on it, and manage it, but we can’t avoid it. The issues are a) need for adequate and reliable connection on the one hand and b) need for adequate and reliable space on the other hand. People can and do switch, but generally I find that when a couple is together, it will be clear who is who at that moment – Clinger or Avoider. Understanding these unconscious issues seems to make it easier to be less confused by people’s behavior.
But you gave another clue in your letter. “became super attentive, 'clingy' and everything i wanted” This doesn’t sound like clingy at all. This sounds like the Master/Slave issue and she might be codependent (Slave). This is a completely different issue. Take a look at the three papers on this (M/S, Passivity, and Foundations) and see if you can’t spot this problem. I think it is common for Avoiders to be Slaves, though they are often Masters and Passive Masters at times. What are you? My suggestion is to root this problem out and move to Friend-Friend.
Hope this is enough for you to chew on. Good luck.
Hey Al,
Thank you for taking so much time and effort in replying to the comments and keeping this website. I have been reading through some of the relationshiip advices and tips but i could not understand how it can be effectively applied in my relationship when i'm currently in a long-distance relationship.
Please bear with me as i share my relationship and i hope that you can help me identify the issues here.
We are in a relationship of 5 years now, first 3 years of being in the same country but last 2 is a long distant relationship. We are both living in Asia countries. I'm 26 this year and she is 34. I have been reading on and off from your website and i remembered mentioning something like 'the clingy' person. I am the clingy person, and when the 'avoider'(she is), i cant help but feel that whenever i give her the space she wants, she seems to be stretching of how much i can space i can give her and it makes me feel it doesnt work? Example, i know she is a workaholic, when she is at work, she doesnt want to be disturbed, hardly responds to my texts (let alone calls, she sounded so irritated and disturbed by me), so i stopped my texting/calling. So we ended up exchanging a few texts/brief call before bed. If i dont initiate the text/call, that day, we ended up not communicating. Whenever i asked why she didnt contact me, she kept saying i didnt contact her either. Many a time this left me confused! extremely confused. I dont want to feel like i'm throwing myself on her and this scenario changes almost 180 degree when i make short visits to her. She became super attentive, 'clingy' and everything i wanted and (reason why i fell in love with her in the first place) It is hard for me to digest and adjust. Is that her way to cope when we are apart? This makes me confused, which is the real her.. Another scenario is when she's away for business trips, she is 99% not contactable. No text/call a few days before her trips and during the trip. This drive me absolutley nuts! I ended up having to guess what is going through her mind and stuff. What is going on here?
Traits of me: emotional, willing to do anything for her, my priority..
Traits of her: want to be in control, workaholic, said since in LD i am not her priority..
Al, please help me out here, i have thoughts of leaving her, having no contact at all with her breaks me. I tried hardening my heart but i ended up breaking down.
I'm sorry this is getting long and all, but it's complex for me to break down and identify this problem. How can i make this relationship work for the rest of my life? I know i can never find someone that makes me feel towards her..
BY the way, i am arrogant and selfish but those traits disappear when i am with her.
Thank you in advance for reading and hope to hear from you.
Dear Mark,
I thought I would take a moment and respond to your question about a slave/avoider/conformer leading their partner into Vintage Love.
Well, I think it possible, not easy, but doable. Actually in a funny way, I think that it paradoxically often happens.
Here are some thoughts.
No one is a slave or an avoider or a conformer. People habitually adopt those positions in relationships with others. That is the principle I hold to. We all change. For example, slaves when they argue are trying to become masters. We can all change our reactions and learn something better. The principle is 1% learn, 2% theory, 97% practice. The best practice is in actual situation where the skill is most needed – that is, with the partner.
The principle of “It takes one to make a marriage….” is that if one person starts to act in ways consistent with the Biological Dream, the partner will be lead to do so also.
Learn to be a Friend no matter what your partner is doing. If they slip into Master, respond from the Friend position. See my papers on Master/Slave and Power of Passivity for specifics. Practice Practice.
Learn to use TimeOuts rather than silent withdrawal. Practice Practice.
Learn to invite, encourage and unleash curiousity and exploration in yourself and in others. Try something new every day, just a little. Practice Practice.
Get help with the learning and the practice. Perhaps find people to practice with who are easier than your partner. But, practice on your partner. Let your partner know what you are doing. Learn how to say it. “I am doing this because I want a great and happy relationship with you, and I need to learn better skills.”
The Paradoxical Leadership comment comes from my observations that a partner who is deeply a slave/avoider/conformer becomes, over time, a real pain in the ass to their partner. The Master/Clinger/Rebel wants much more from their relationship, but doesn't have the skills – yet. Their partner “hopeless passivity” often provokes (read “leads”) them to have to learn.
By the way, I kept those three labels of yours together, not because the belong together, but because you used them. I have seen slaves acting clinging, etc.
Warmly,
Al Turtle